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	<title>Comments on: Of interest: A poetry special</title>
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	<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685</link>
	<description>Where inky words disappear/Aditi Machado blogs here</description>
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		<title>By: Scherezade</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>Scherezade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am niether of science nor of art  but of filo-fishy - the social equaivalent of hand grenades. (We are *taught* to see things as interachangeable.)
I stick to my original blah blah. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am niether of science nor of art  but of filo-fishy &#8211; the social equaivalent of hand grenades. (We are *taught* to see things as interachangeable.)<br />
I stick to my original blah blah. <img src='http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Aditi</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Aditi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-992</guid>
		<description>Haha, that&#039;s Sumant for you. 

I love that picture. Sometimes you can find really spectacular things on the DD page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, that&#8217;s Sumant for you. </p>
<p>I love that picture. Sometimes you can find really spectacular things on the DD page.</p>
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		<title>By: Lane Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>Lane Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-991</guid>
		<description>&quot;I should also add that I found James’s essay tedious and quite pompous.&quot;
Heavens, that&#039;s strong.

In other news that &quot;catman&quot; thing is pretty cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I should also add that I found James’s essay tedious and quite pompous.&#8221;<br />
Heavens, that&#8217;s strong.</p>
<p>In other news that &#8220;catman&#8221; thing is pretty cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Aditi</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Aditi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-990</guid>
		<description>Hi George,

Welcome to my blog. : )

&quot;for me criticism at its best is very much creative—many of the best pieces are as rewarding to me as a good story might be for someone else. what i look for is a chance to see things a little differently.&quot;

I think those are pretty good criteria for criticism/theory, although we may differ on what is creative or what allows us to see things differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi George,</p>
<p>Welcome to my blog. : )</p>
<p>&#8220;for me criticism at its best is very much creative—many of the best pieces are as rewarding to me as a good story might be for someone else. what i look for is a chance to see things a little differently.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think those are pretty good criteria for criticism/theory, although we may differ on what is creative or what allows us to see things differently.</p>
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		<title>By: George Dafforn</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-988</link>
		<dc:creator>George Dafforn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-988</guid>
		<description>interesting discussion and blog! i hope you don&#039;t mind me sticking my oar in. =) i guess it seems to me the non-creative criticism vs creative scientific analysis might come about from a lack of familiarity with criticism in general, not to say i&#039;m an expert or anything. that dissection of artistic processes is a part of criticism, sure, but at this point artistic, cultural, philosophical, and linguistic areas of study have become so much part of the same thing that inquiry into one of them crosses various boundaries and is difficult to pin down. for me criticism at its best is very much creative---many of the best pieces are as rewarding to me as a good story might be for someone else. what i look for is a chance to see things a little differently. just pulling apart a bit of writing to see how it ticks is hardly the stuff of really good criticism anyway, and doesn&#039;t really seem to be what&#039;s going on in the links (to me, at least). maybe there&#039;s a bit of it in the lehmann article but i have to say i think i enjoyed that one most---i&#039;m always a sucker for personal viewpoints. so, different strokes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting discussion and blog! i hope you don&#8217;t mind me sticking my oar in. =) i guess it seems to me the non-creative criticism vs creative scientific analysis might come about from a lack of familiarity with criticism in general, not to say i&#8217;m an expert or anything. that dissection of artistic processes is a part of criticism, sure, but at this point artistic, cultural, philosophical, and linguistic areas of study have become so much part of the same thing that inquiry into one of them crosses various boundaries and is difficult to pin down. for me criticism at its best is very much creative&#8212;many of the best pieces are as rewarding to me as a good story might be for someone else. what i look for is a chance to see things a little differently. just pulling apart a bit of writing to see how it ticks is hardly the stuff of really good criticism anyway, and doesn&#8217;t really seem to be what&#8217;s going on in the links (to me, at least). maybe there&#8217;s a bit of it in the lehmann article but i have to say i think i enjoyed that one most&#8212;i&#8217;m always a sucker for personal viewpoints. so, different strokes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sumant</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>Sumant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 07:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-987</guid>
		<description>Right, then. Criticism is not the peeling of an onion until there are no layers left. Because, you see, the layers are the onion. Once all the layers are gone, there is no onion. This atomization of literary output results in very little tangible benefit, because most of what comes out cannot be replicated, and in most cases, is not even tangible enough to replicate. This deconstruction of creative process seems to be little more than a self-indulgent waste of time perpetrated by academics with a grant to earn and burn.

At this point, I should probably apologize for my strong position, since it&#039;s out of sync with the tone of the remaining comments. I should also add that I found James&#039;s essay tedious and quite pompous.

A note on the art of science, though: Original scientific endeavour is a process that is rife with creativity. It is the process of extremely inventive and selective destruction with an aim to study what remains, in order to design equally inventive construction towards a productive goal. Speaking of dissection, a scientific study can observe start and end, but never the process. At best, one can identify checkpoints in a process, but the actual process itself is left to conjecture, and theories that present a picture that is consistent with what has been observed.

It is very similar with art as well. All you can do is observe checkpoints. The difficult part is assigning process to something that has no fixed path. It is not productive to do so, either, for it would result in templatization of creativity, at which point it would negate the very concept of creativity, which is to expand the scope of behaviours beyond the template.

It is probably also wise to add here that my ideas are considered to be &#039;hack theories&#039; by some, so I hope you have a salt dispenser handy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, then. Criticism is not the peeling of an onion until there are no layers left. Because, you see, the layers are the onion. Once all the layers are gone, there is no onion. This atomization of literary output results in very little tangible benefit, because most of what comes out cannot be replicated, and in most cases, is not even tangible enough to replicate. This deconstruction of creative process seems to be little more than a self-indulgent waste of time perpetrated by academics with a grant to earn and burn.</p>
<p>At this point, I should probably apologize for my strong position, since it&#8217;s out of sync with the tone of the remaining comments. I should also add that I found James&#8217;s essay tedious and quite pompous.</p>
<p>A note on the art of science, though: Original scientific endeavour is a process that is rife with creativity. It is the process of extremely inventive and selective destruction with an aim to study what remains, in order to design equally inventive construction towards a productive goal. Speaking of dissection, a scientific study can observe start and end, but never the process. At best, one can identify checkpoints in a process, but the actual process itself is left to conjecture, and theories that present a picture that is consistent with what has been observed.</p>
<p>It is very similar with art as well. All you can do is observe checkpoints. The difficult part is assigning process to something that has no fixed path. It is not productive to do so, either, for it would result in templatization of creativity, at which point it would negate the very concept of creativity, which is to expand the scope of behaviours beyond the template.</p>
<p>It is probably also wise to add here that my ideas are considered to be &#8216;hack theories&#8217; by some, so I hope you have a salt dispenser handy.</p>
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		<title>By: Aditi</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>Aditi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 05:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-986</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the discussion, and keep it going, if you can. 

@ Scherezade

You are incapable of spam.

@ Jon

I will stay out of the art/science debate, but I&#039;m still curious about your dislike for criticism/theory. The word &quot;dissecting&quot; reflects that -- it&#039;s an unpleasant word and suggests that what will be revealed after the dissection is a pile of guts. Not pretty at all. 

But you can&#039;t really dissect the artistic process. Few have attempted to do so. However, explorations of it do exist, and often they&#039;re quite revelatory. I&#039;ve read a couple of personal essays on creative processes for MFA/MA theses. 

What is the sort of criticism that is all glare and scalpel with no style or art of its own? I know it&#039;s out there, but I need an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the discussion, and keep it going, if you can. </p>
<p>@ Scherezade</p>
<p>You are incapable of spam.</p>
<p>@ Jon</p>
<p>I will stay out of the art/science debate, but I&#8217;m still curious about your dislike for criticism/theory. The word &#8220;dissecting&#8221; reflects that &#8212; it&#8217;s an unpleasant word and suggests that what will be revealed after the dissection is a pile of guts. Not pretty at all. </p>
<p>But you can&#8217;t really dissect the artistic process. Few have attempted to do so. However, explorations of it do exist, and often they&#8217;re quite revelatory. I&#8217;ve read a couple of personal essays on creative processes for MFA/MA theses. </p>
<p>What is the sort of criticism that is all glare and scalpel with no style or art of its own? I know it&#8217;s out there, but I need an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Rohith</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>Rohith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 04:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-983</guid>
		<description>For any poet, his work is at once extremely personal yet public. The very art of writing, be it poetry or fiction, goes on to elucidate the seed of a writer&#039;s thought. It is an avenue of expression, which every person on the planet requires. Some do it with music, some with art while many by the mundane (picking a color for the walls of the house, choosing of curios or even by the act of arranging their furniture). A poet does it with words and its effect is very immediate - people can read, understand and then discuss about the meaning behind it.

The strength of the debate is based entirely on the distance that the poet maintains from his readers. For example, the work of Charles Bukowski is more literal and visceral while a Charles Wright is a little more reserved and open to some interpretation. Both the poets appear to the reader, but the distance of this vision is determined by the verse.

But there is no denying that poetry is as personal as it gets. A Gregory Orr writes because of the cathartic experience it evokes in him and some of the writings of Plath mirrored her state of emotional turmoil during the latter part of her life. Poetry is a celebration of living, a way of sharing experiences that are universal and reaching out to others in the hopes that even if you cannot plumb to the bottom of your heart, perhaps you can unclog that tiny drain in the heart of the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For any poet, his work is at once extremely personal yet public. The very art of writing, be it poetry or fiction, goes on to elucidate the seed of a writer&#8217;s thought. It is an avenue of expression, which every person on the planet requires. Some do it with music, some with art while many by the mundane (picking a color for the walls of the house, choosing of curios or even by the act of arranging their furniture). A poet does it with words and its effect is very immediate &#8211; people can read, understand and then discuss about the meaning behind it.</p>
<p>The strength of the debate is based entirely on the distance that the poet maintains from his readers. For example, the work of Charles Bukowski is more literal and visceral while a Charles Wright is a little more reserved and open to some interpretation. Both the poets appear to the reader, but the distance of this vision is determined by the verse.</p>
<p>But there is no denying that poetry is as personal as it gets. A Gregory Orr writes because of the cathartic experience it evokes in him and some of the writings of Plath mirrored her state of emotional turmoil during the latter part of her life. Poetry is a celebration of living, a way of sharing experiences that are universal and reaching out to others in the hopes that even if you cannot plumb to the bottom of your heart, perhaps you can unclog that tiny drain in the heart of the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Lane Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>Lane Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 04:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-982</guid>
		<description>On art and science: There is an obvious analogy between the two to a certain extent, e.g. in the way both are carried out (as Scherezade asserted), but to suggest that they are one and the same or &quot;interchangeable&quot; is absurd. I&#039;m not asserting the dominance or importance of one over the other, nor am I implying that they are entirely unrelated; I am merely warning that all those metaphors and poetic devices may be getting to you. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On art and science: There is an obvious analogy between the two to a certain extent, e.g. in the way both are carried out (as Scherezade asserted), but to suggest that they are one and the same or &#8220;interchangeable&#8221; is absurd. I&#8217;m not asserting the dominance or importance of one over the other, nor am I implying that they are entirely unrelated; I am merely warning that all those metaphors and poetic devices may be getting to you. <img src='http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685&#038;cpage=1#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 01:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toothsoup.com/blottingpaper/?p=685#comment-981</guid>
		<description>*a medium for expression, I should say. Also, yes! Rap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*a medium for expression, I should say. Also, yes! Rap.</p>
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